How the Cavs fix this; the good and bad of the Guardians; the Browns’ best offseason move: Terry’s Talkin’ podcast

CLEVELAND, Ohio – It’s time for this week’s Final Four edition of the Terry’s Talkin’ podcast with Terry Pluto and host David Campbell. In this edition of the podcast, we talk about the struggling Cavs, and some ideas on how they can hold things together as they close out the regular season.

We also get into the good, the bad and the unusual of the Guardians after their first five games of the season.

And we look at the Browns and what we think has been the best move of their offseason so far.

Also, Terry has asked fans to send in stories of when and how they got a foul ball at a baseball game. We read a couple of those. And for next week, you can email those, along with any other comments or questions you may have, to sports@cleveland.com.

Want to keep up with everything Terry is writing? Be sure to sign up for his free weekly newsletter.

If the player below doesn’t work, you can listen to this week’s podcast here.

Highlights:

• The Cleveland Cavaliers are facing challenges due to injuries, particularly Donovan Mitchell’s knee injury, which is impacting the team’s performance.
• Darius Garland is struggling with breaking double teams and going to the basket, which is affecting his scoring and the team’s offense.
• Evan Mobley and Max Strus: underrated players on the Cavaliers’ roster.
• The women’s Final Four in Cleveland is generating excitement, with standout players like Caitlin Clark and Paige Buecker drawing attention.
• The women’s game is gaining popularity, and the players’ longer college careers are contributing to the growth of storylines and rivalries.
• The Cleveland Guardians had a strong start, with solid performances from players like Andres Gimenez and the bullpen.
• Pitchers Hunter Gaddis and Cade Smith are showing promise in the bullpen.
• The bullpen remains a concern.
• The Browns’ best move of the offseason so far.
• What area the Browns should look to build up in the NFL Draft.
• Fans share stories of catching foul balls at games, highlighting memorable experiences and missed opportunities.

At the bottom of this post is a transcript. As it is a computer-generated transcript, it will contain fact, spelling and grammar errors.

David Campbell (02:03.726)

Hey everybody, welcome to this week’s edition of the Terry’s Talking Podcast. I’m David Campbell, your host, and I am joined by someone who enjoys this time of year because it is basketball wall to wall. Mr. Terry Pluto. Terry, how’s it going?

terry (02:02.281)

I am doing well.

David Campbell (02:03.726)

Great, hey, let’s get into it. I think we should start with the Cavs and maybe we’ll talk some women’s final four since it’s down at the Rocket Mortgage Fieldhouse. We’ve got some guardians to get into. We got some good foul ball stories. Let’s start with the Cavs, Terry. You’ve been writing about the struggles they’ve been having. They’re only, boy, a half game up on the Knicks for third place in the East right now. I was looking, I think that as of today, we’re taping this late on Tuesday, they’re only three and a half games.

out of a playing tournament spot. Are you worried about this team, Terry? And if so, how worried are you with seven games left?

terry (02:31.982)

Wow

terry (02:37.903)

Yeah, I’m worried because I’m not sure who’s going to play or who’s going to do what the Mitchell injury hangs over this whole franchise right now. And Chris Fedor is so connected. It’s, it’s, it’s remarkable. The stuff he gets and, you know, Donovan has been telling him the knee is not right. I think he played four games in March shot like 30% from the field. I was shocked to see that.

60% of the shots were from three point ranks. He’s not even trying to drive. His passing is still good. It’s really good. And I just feel somewhat more confident with the ball in his Hansden Garlands right now. But if he’s not out there scoring 25 points and doing, you know, Donovan Mitchell things in terms of, uh, you know, he’s always near the top of the league and steals and deflections. Um, and if he’s really having to play kind of pass a basketball to hide the knee, I mean, they’re in big trouble.

David Campbell (03:34.634)

And I think this was in your column, Terry, or maybe it was Chris Fedor’s reporting, I’m not sure, but they’re 11 and 13 without Mitchell this season. And they have a net rating of plus 7.4 with him on the court, and their minus 1.5 net rating with him off. I mean, that just puts numbers behind what you were just saying. It’s dramatic.

terry (03:41.143)

Yep. Mm-hmm.

terry (03:52.739)

Basically, he’s worth nine points a game difference is what it really is. And the other thing that like in the last five games that they’ve lost, Darius Garland shooting like 35% and averaging 13 points and just having a really hard time, which is why in my column I’m suggesting not that Mitch Struce be the full-time point guard or anything like that, but Struce is 6′5″. He’s got some point guard skills.

I think he’s the most underrated player on the team because these, especially the good teams are jumping out and they’re double team in Garland. He’s having a hard time with it.

David Campbell (04:32.59)

So I wanted to get into that a little bit, Terry, about Darius Garland. And I think you mentioned this last week on the podcast. You think that given all the facial hits that he’s taken and the eye injuries and everything, that he’s a little shy going to the basket. Are you still seeing that?

terry (04:47.303)

Mm-hmm. Yes. Yeah, I am. And I just, maybe we don’t know how he is physically. He may be more beat up than we’re we realize. Uh, it’s very clear to me. He’s having trouble breaking double teams and things were in the past. He was able to do it. I don’t know why that is just saying this is what I see. And my guess is it’s what many fans are seeing based on the emails I’m receiving. And.

So the key thing that, I mean, the best back court, by the way, they had by far, or excuse me, the best pairing of two players to be exact is Mitchell and Struz by far. I mean, actually Garland and, um, Mitchell weren’t as bad as I thought they would be there sort of in the middle, but that’s a, uh, that’s a combination that I really liked together. That’s a combination. I think that in the playoffs could be effective.

Uh, where you go bigger and then you have a coral, a small forward and you have your two big guys out there. Um, they won’t do it, but I might bring Garland off the bench. Maybe it’s hard to do it at this point now with Mitchell hurt, but that would be, you know, something, he’s a max player. He’s made an all-star team. Well, a lot of basketball is fit in combinations and you need to get, first of all, if I’m.

Bickerstaff the last thing I’d be worried about like somebody’s feelings at this point. I’ve got to figure out how to win some games Yeah, I mean I got to figure out what to do here. You know, Mowgli seems to be coming around some so that’s you know, that’s a plus thing Jared Allen’s been there all year for them once he got healthy and

David Campbell (06:14.846)

Oh yeah, there’s no time for that.

terry (06:30.247)

Don’t you notice David how when Mitchell plays Allen is just so much better.

David Campbell (06:37.998)

Well, he’s one of those guys that makes everybody else around him better. And Darius Garland has done that in the past, but I’m not seeing that from him this year. I was curious, Terry, after what you said last week, I wanted to see if there’s any data to kind of, uh, you know, buttress your opinion or, or maybe if there was something we were missing. So Garland, his scoring average from last season to this season, hasn’t just gone down. It was 21.6 last year. He’s down to 18.0 this year, but.

terry (06:41.155)

Yeah. Mm-hmm.

terry (06:55.431)

Sure.

David Campbell (07:05.366)

He, last season he shot four free throws a game. And this season he’s shooting 2.7. I’m sorry, that’s free throws made. Four per game and 2.7. He attempted 4.7 free throws last season and he’s attempting 3.2. That’s like a free throw and a half per game less. He’s also shooting less from the free throw line when he does get there, 8.63 to 8.34. And then this is interesting too, Terry. His personal fouls per game are

terry (07:11.395)

Mm-hmm. Yeah.

David Campbell (07:33.706)

were 2.1 last year and it’s down to 1.7. So he’s not fouling as much on defense. I don’t know if that implies that he’s not sticking his nose into as many scrums. Yeah, so like he just seems it just seems like he’s not getting to the free throw line. He’s not defending his heart. He’s not fouling. I didn’t pull his defensive numbers in terms of defensive rating or anything like that. But the free throw numbers going down, I mean how many times have we seen him go into the lane with a nice little teardrop?

terry (07:40.995)

I don’t think he’s not guarding, he’s not guarding anybody. I mean.

David Campbell (08:00.406)

That’s like part of his game. And if he’s reluctant to go in there because of everything he’s been through, like, yes, we can understand that, but that’s a big problem for the Cavs if he’s not gonna be bringing that to their offense.

terry (08:12.167)

Yeah, but the biggest one, David, is when they jump out and blitz him on defense and he has trouble getting the offense set up and that. And maybe the other problem is because he’s not breaking those double teams, so therefore he’s not getting past the defense. He’s not getting into the line even to begin with. That could be another problem. This is not to put it all on Garland, but the combination of Garland having the worst year of his career since his rookie season.

and Mitchell being heard of late. I mean, in January and February, they went 20 and six. And they didn’t have Garland and I mean, I think he played like 13 of those games and mobility missed a bunch of them, but they were cooking with Mitchell and Streus and George Niang and Alan and that group. Um, and then they go seven and 10 in March and the March schedule was harder and it was more compact.

But nonetheless, it was to me very discouraging to see that. And so as we go into April, I don’t know what we’re going to see. I really don’t because I don’t know what the team’s going to look like. And that’s a really bad place to be with the playoffs coming. That is why I would rest Mitchell the next, they have like five games left or six games, he would play maybe, I know you want to stay out of the playing tournament or whatever, but you got to beat a few of these teams with what you’ve got.

And I would bring Mitchell back maybe for a last regular season game, just to make sure he’s ready to go for the playoffs. And if that meant putting the ball in Struce’s hands more often, or the other guy who actually shockingly impressed me with his good point-cutter skills is Laverte, I want somebody to get the ball up the court and get things set up better than Garland has been doing, and I never thought that’s something I would say.

David Campbell (10:05.578)

Well, and as you pointed out, Terry, just the physical demands of carrying the team are it just seems to be too much for him right now with like you said, with the blitzes and everything, the physical defenders are throwing at him. Um, I think you’re right. I, the Cavs have seven games left, right? Just to reset that they’re at Utah tonight. And then they have a back to back tomorrow night at Phoenix. Donovan Mitchell has already been listed as out for tonight. I, I would be shocked if he played tomorrow night at Phoenix. That doesn’t make any sense. And they’re going to let him rest.

terry (10:09.319)

Mm-hmm.

terry (10:20.223)

Okay.

terry (10:24.839)

Bye.

David Campbell (10:32.47)

you know, Thursday, Friday, then they have a Saturday, Sunday at the Lakers and Clippers, the usual LA doubleheader back to back situation when teams go out there. I mean, you might, you might be right there. He might miss the next six games and come back for the, for the last one just to get some rhythm back. But that would be a good long stretch to let him rehab that knee and get it right. That’s kind of what’s at stake here is, is how healthy is he going to be?

terry (10:37.476)

Mm-hmm.

terry (10:55.799)

He’s not, he’s not, yeah. And he’s not even close to right. David. It’s not as if you’re saying, well, he’s just a little off. No, he’s not going to the rim. He’s there’s something very wrong with the guy. Um, and you just have to go do what needs to be done there. And by the way, you know, this would be an interesting thing. How his knee is in the off season. Does that impact his decision outside of the contract extension or not? You know, sometimes when a player has an injury.

And you’re sitting there saying, do you really want to walk away? Cause it actually, it would, well, everybody says it’s, um, 200 million for four years. I wrote this it’s actually 238 million or something like that for five because they, they would pick up the last year of his contract, 38 million tack four more onto it. Um, pretty good college fund.

David Campbell (11:45.71)

Yeah, not too bad. All right, so what you wanna see, Terry, is take the ball out of Garland’s hands more, share the load, bringing it up, initiating the offense, have Struz do more of that, Porter do more of that, Laverte, mix it up between those guys and get everybody involved and try and get that ball movement that they had. It’s gonna be a different look because it’s not gonna all, you’ve compared Mitchell to being the sun and the other guys is the planets around him. This is gonna be like.

terry (11:52.653)

Yes.

terry (11:59.299)

Yeah, Porter too, Levert. Yeah.

David Campbell (12:14.046)

A lot of planets just kind of, it’s going to be like the Big Bang Theory.

terry (12:15.544)

Yeah, they are helping there and Garland might be more effective to some playing off the ball, some more catch and shoot stuff and things from the outside. That might help him too. So it’s JB’s got a, he’s got talent to pick from David. See, that’s the thing I want to stress here because Mobly is healthy.

Now, I guess the Corals had a toe thing, but you know, he’s there. Laverte’s had some stuff. Those are kind of the regular knock around the little injuries you get in the NBA season, Laverte and a Coral. But this is still a pretty good team. Mitchell is the one that takes it to another level, but they should not go out. And now granted, these are tough games, whether you say Utah Phoenix and the double LA, but they shouldn’t be losing 15 to 20 points.

a night in these games. They just should not. You should be able to figure out how to do it and work around it. And you’ve got Allen. Yeah. Well, Garland shot two for nine and it was just terrible. And I’m not sure what’s going on with the defense either, but it has really taken a big step backwards.

David Campbell (13:11.906)

Yeah, or 30 points on Sunday. Yeah.

David Campbell (13:25.91)

Yeah, and I think they’ve checked out in some ways on the defense because they know the end is near and the playoffs are coming. So that could be part of it too. So I did want to ask Terry. Yeah, you mentioned kind of who you thought was maybe the most underrated Cav going into the playoffs. Who is that to you? I’ve got a guy too.

terry (13:33.077)

I hope. Yeah. Go ahead.

terry (13:42.155)

It’s, it’s truth. I mean, I’ll say that just because I think Alan this year has gotten his due, you know, maybe not nationally, but at least locally from the guy that said the lights are too bright in New York. And I admit, I, you know, I stunk and people wanted to trade him to they saw how he and Mitchell carried the team when they had so many guys who were hurt. So I moved him out of the underrated thing and I put.

streusel it because of his varied skills. You know, I thought he was primarily a shooter. I didn’t realize he was as athletic as he was. And I knew he was kind of a gritty defender. Just about all of them are in Miami. But this guy’s ball handling skills are good too.

David Campbell (14:26.594)

I’ll tell you who my guy is, Terry, who I think is the most underrated. And we’ve been waiting for Evan Mobley, right? And if I think if you look at his numbers from last season to this season, there is not much difference except in one area. And that is three points shooting. And has there ever been a better time for Evan Mobley to take the reins on this offense and just become a guy that they can run, they can run sets for like every other time down the floor.

terry (14:32.711)

Mm-hmm.

terry (14:41.015)

Mm-hmm.

David Campbell (14:53.73)

You know, I think he’s gone. He shot about 21% on threes last season. I think he’s up almost to 38% 37.8 this season. And this there can’t really be a better time for Evan Mobley to break out and show everybody what he can do inside outside. We know the defense, but making him one of the first offensive options, I think the time is now to get that going so that when Donovan Mitchell comes back, they have somewhere else they can go and someone who can shoot. What do you think of that?

terry (14:59.918)

Yeah.

terry (15:22.535)

And also, well, it also creates room for Alan inside and his shot does look a lot better because if you could float him out to the perimeter, then you’re getting a little bit of a one thing like more Laurie Markin. And that’s why he fit with those guys because, you know, he was a seven footer who could make three pointers. And even though it seems sort of awkward at times, the small forward, the shooting helped make up for it. And so I’m, I’m very pleased on that.

David Campbell (15:26.946)

Good point.

terry (15:50.187)

Yeah. When looking back at Mowby, I think one of the mistakes they made with him, and I understand they were just ecstatic to get him at number three. It’s, they started with, you know, HLF, the hall of fame thing. And that it was just, that could be something quiet, but you don’t wait. I wouldn’t lay that on him. And a 19 year old played one year at USC. Uh, it’s just too much. And let’s see what he develops into, um, before you start going down that road. But.

The nice thing is this year where he had minor knee surgery and then of caesarea sprain ankle, he’s bounced back from both to be productive right now when they need him. So that’s really encouraging.

David Campbell (16:32.546)

All right, well, it’s going to be an interesting last 10 games here or seven games. Sorry, it was 10 last week and the playoffs are at stake and Chris Führer has been writing about this and you’ve been writing about there are jobs at stake. And if this thing doesn’t work, if it’s not progressing, there’s going to be a lot of hard questions asked. So we’ll see they have a tough road trip coming up. So, and speaking of road trips, Terry, the reason the calves are out of town on this long trip is because of the women’s final four coming to town.

terry (16:44.566)

Mm-hmm.

David Campbell (16:57.694)

Um, we have, they’re going to be down at rocket mortgage field house. The games are Friday night and Sunday at three is the championship Friday night. We are going to have South Carolina against NC state. And then the night cap it’s nine 30 will be Yukon against Kaitlin Clark and Iowa. And you have a really interesting Kaitlin Clark angle this week that I had not realized until you told me, Terry, go ahead. Why don’t you talk about Kaitlin Clark and the local connection.

terry (17:20.483)

Yeah. Earlier in the year, Cleveland State played at Iowa. Chris Killsmeyer, the coach of Cleveland State, by the way, they’ve won 59 games in the last two years. Cleveland State’s women’s team. I thought the game was just at Iowa, you know, on campus. It turned out it was played at the Wells Fargo Center in Des Moines. Like basically a three pointer away from where Katelyn Cart grew up.

So they walk in and this is a Clayton Clark homecoming festival. I mean, there’s 15,000 people, they’re all waving signs and Clark’s talking about she has chills because she played on the court to win state titles. And here’s Cleveland State walking into this. And on top of it, Kielzmeyer, the coach, grew up in Iowa. And as he said to me, he’s 48 years old, he said, when I was a kid, a lot of the girls

basketball programs at high school that were playing six player basketball. That’s only three in back court and three in the front court. It started to go away in 85. There didn’t go totally away to the 94 playoffs. So, you know, so you go from this sort of primitive basketball to it’s showtime, you know? And so Chris himself said he had over a hundred relatives and friends in the crowd. And cause he

Grew up in Iowa, he went to Iowa State. You know, this was a very big deal for him. And of course, all the women on his team had circled the date. I mean, they lost, let me see here, 105 to 74. You know, Clark had like her usual game. She went for 38 and nine to 16 on threes. But he said, even though you look at tape and that he said what really strikes you when you’re watching it in person is she’s faster.

Then she looks on tape, just moving down, you know, just the long strides and everything. And her court vision is superb. You know, she’s leading the country, not just in scoring, but also in assist. I mean, she really does make kind of like what little bit we talked about Mitchell and that making your teammates better. And so he just said, it was a great experience. He wished that his kids had played better. He goes, so we gave up 100 points. He goes, the other night I’m watching LSU.

terry (19:44.143)

They hung 90 points on LSU. So, hey, it happens. You know, I’m not going to sit here and be embarrassed by that, but it was one of those moments where he realized thinking back to when he grew up and some of the high schools around them were playing this and he’s only 48, he’s not 148, we’re playing the six player basketball to that 15,000 people. You know, it’s as if this is, I mean, she may be like the

David Campbell (19:46.186)

Yeah, that’s right.

terry (20:11.963)

biggest Iowa basketball legend ever by the time this is done.

David Campbell (20:17.234)

Yeah, it’s crazy to think about it for people who don’t know the three on three Terry It was like you had three people play offense and three play defense and they could not go over the half court line, right?

terry (20:20.769)

Yeah, it’s…

terry (20:26.864)

Yeah, you were either assigned to playing on one side of the half court line or on the other and that was it. And yeah.

David Campbell (20:33.214)

And it was a big deal in Iowa. They loved that they had this different brand of basketball back in the day, but it’s crazy how far it’s coming. And you know, there’s been a lot written about Caitlin Clark and just, you know, you talk about this in your faith and you column sometimes, Terry about how one decision can really make a difference. And she was down to Notre Dame and Iowa and she actually committed to Notre Dame and, and didn’t announce it or anything. And then thought about it for a couple of days and decided she wanted to stay home and it’s, it’s just wild to think about how different.

terry (20:46.837)

Mm-hmm.

David Campbell (21:01.314)

things might have been if she had gone to Notre Dame. I mean, she’s like an Iowa folk hero now with the way things have turned out. The all-time leading scorer in the history of basketball, college basketball, men or women. And yeah, she decided to stay home and I don’t think she ever could have fathomed that things would have gone the way they’ve gone. It’s wild.

terry (21:02.311)

Mm-hmm.

terry (21:06.179)

Mm-hmm.

terry (21:18.955)

No, you’re going to like this. So they play UConn tonight. Excuse me, UConn. Excuse me, play UConn on Friday night, I think at like 930, whatever it is. UConn, the epitome of women’s college basketball. She was not recruited by them. Not that she would like think about this at all or anything, but she said they did sort of talk to the…

coaches but never really reached out to her or her family. Whereas just about everybody else was after. I mean, she was a big, big time player in high school there. Her grandfather was, I think it’s called Dowling High School in Des Moines. Her grandfather was football coach there. Her father played at Simpkins College and then her brothers played sports at the high school. So it’s a very athletic family. It was the basketball games with the brothers in the driveway and all that kind of stuff.

She has a 3.6 GPA in marketing, which she’s going to be coming handy with all she’s got going already, which already has all state commercials and other things. Uh, so it’s, uh, it’s just a really nice story, but I’ve seen two women that when I first saw them, my mouth in terms of basketball players, just like fell open. And the first was in the late seventies, 1977. I am at.

Greensboro, a young writer, and they sent me to cover this college all-star game. Now this is really the infancy of college basketball supports for women, 77, but they were there and I had heard about this Nancy Lieberman, but I had never seen her. So, and this is like, she’s at old dominion and it looks like, by the way, the player of the year award in college basketball is a Nancy Lieberman award. So anyway, I’m watching this game and I’m going.

She’s gone behind her back. She’s gone. She’s got double pump fake. She’s going to the rim. She really played like what she was, which was a, uh, a New York city for a Rockaway, New York style, um, playground player. And it was completely different. Now you see a lot of that now, but that was brand new. And then Clark comes along and we’ve had many, many great women basketball players since, but she’s shooting from Steph Curry land.

terry (23:41.031)

And she’s averaging, she’s doing her Magic Johnson thing. She’s averaging close to a triple double. And so I’m like, to watch how the game has changed and like Kielmeyer’s mind from the six on six or three on three, however you wanna call it, to this is just remarkable and is so much fun. Boy, how many people do you think of the NCAA wherever we’re really pulling for Iowa to beat LSU for that final four game in Cleveland?

David Campbell (24:11.35)

Well, and Tim Bielik, our colleague, he put up a post on cleveland.com earlier today. The women’s final four tickets are selling for, I think about 33% more than the men’s final four tickets. And a lot of that goes back to the players have to stay in school longer in the women’s game than the men’s game. They can’t jump to WNBA. Uh, and Caitlin Clark, this will be her last year. I mean, she should be turning pro, but I think that having the players stick around.

terry (24:27.761)

Mm-hmm.

David Campbell (24:39.05)

It’s very reminiscent of like the bird magic era, but when players had to stay two or three years in college and these rivalries would build, and there’d be one-on-one matchups you’d want to see because something happened the year before. And I think the women’s game, because of having the players stay in college longer, is benefiting from those storylines. And really just, people are just gravitating toward that. It’s been something to watch. Like that game last night, that LSU-Iowa game.

I think it got huge ratings, bigger than last year’s championship game, which I think was on ABC. And last night was on ESPN, a cable network. And I think it’s still got about 10 million viewers.

terry (25:15.779)

Well, it’s, I mean, it’s growing. Now people are saying you have to see this woman play. You have to see it. That’s if you like that, you got to see it. And then, um, so I stuck, I was watched the second game, which was a USC. Well, Lindsay Gottlieb was a assistant coach here briefly. She’s at USC with her star freshmen, a lady named Juju Watkins, who was terrific. And then, um, you know, so that they were, and they were playing Yukon. And of course Yukon is the legendary program.

And this Paige Becker’s, Paige was actually the player of the year before Caitlin went to Iowa and then she’d been out for a couple of years with injuries. And she is a lot of fun to watch too. So, um, these games, I think they’re just going to be terrific. And, uh, I am just so glad it’s here right in our backyard. And even if you can’t get in, you don’t want to put out 1500 bucks for a ticket online, tune it in.

David Campbell (26:12.426)

Yeah, and even beyond that, Terry, on Saturday, there’s going to be an all-star game that they’ve initiated for the I think they used to have one about 20 years ago and they brought it back. But players who aren’t participating in the Final Four, they’re hoping to get some big names to play in that on Saturday. And then what we’re also going to have on Saturday is the NCAA opens practices to the public. And you can just show up down at Rocket Mortgage Fieldhouse and watch the teams practice and which is really good. Oh, that reminds me, we have two stories today.

terry (26:16.039)

Mm-hmm.

David Campbell (26:39.462)

Ashley Bastock, who covers the Browns for us, was actually at the last Women’s Final Four in 2007 and wrote it. She went down for the public practices and she said it was one of the most memorable moments of her childhood and she highly recommends it. Yeah.

terry (26:50.375)

Uh, I read it. It’s a fantastic story that Ashley wrote. Ashley went on to play at John Carroll, uh, on I think one or two of their NCAA teams. So, um, you know, it was just, it was just so cool to, to read that. And we, essentially males can get caught in our little box of how we see that. And we forget that there are a lot of women out there and girls who are looking at these players and picking up on, uh,

Yeah, you know, I can do that too.

Roberta was on the very first women’s basketball team at Hiram, which by the way was 1975. Think about that. They didn’t even have a team there until then. Um, and she was a senior. So by the way, they played that three man game at her high school. She didn’t go out. She didn’t like it. So she, she didn’t, she waited till college to go out, but just to see how it’s changed.

David Campbell (28:38.03)

All right, lots of basketball this weekend. And you can, like Terry said, you can participate in a number of ways, watching going down and a championship game Sunday at three o’clock. So, all right, Terry, let’s take a break. When we come back, we are going to talk about the Guardians and maybe we’ll do like the good, the bad, and the unusual that we’ve seen so far. We’ll get into that and we’ll have some more of your letters about foul balls when we return on Terry’s Talking.

terry (29:04.295)

All right, give me a moment. Sounds, everything sounds great. So let’s not, we’re not gonna let this go real far. We’re gonna keep going.

David Campbell (29:05.866)

All right. Yeah.

I think it was a riverside issue, I really do.

David Campbell (29:16.656)

Hahaha.

terry (29:51.749)

All right.

David Campbell (29:52.906)

All right, here we go. Five, four, three, two.

David Campbell (30:02.734)

We’re back on Terry’s talking David Campbell and Terry Pluto. We’re going to get into some baseball here. Terry, the guardians are off to a three and two start. They’re a game and a half behind the Detroit Tigers who were in first place in the AL central.

terry (30:15.546)

Well, somebody’s gotta be in first in the central. Somebody has to do it, yeah.

David Campbell (30:17.846)

That’s true, and the twins are in second. So anyway, it’s early in the season. I thought we could do maybe the good, the bad, and then maybe the quirky. I’ve got a little stat that I wanted to throw you away here in a minute, but what are you seeing that you like so far from the Guardians in their first five games and they’re playing at Seattle late tonight? So go ahead, Terry.

terry (30:25.158)

Mm-hmm.

terry (30:35.935)

Okay. Um, Freeman and center. I mean, I actually was kind of encouraged on that because I thought, um, a shortstop with the right training should be able to play the outfield. If you’re good enough athlete to play short, you should be able to figure out how to play the outfield. But, you know, he threw a guy out of the plate yesterday and that was really good. Uh, the feeling was if he gets enough at bats, he can hit two 80 or so. And, you know, he said a home run. He’s hit the ball hard several times.

So we can’t talk about center field as no offense, at least so far. So that’s a, that’s a very big positive. And then the other, you know, I’m big on the bullpen, all kinds of worries about the bullpen has been good so far. We’ll see how that goes. But there were two guys that I think. One I was high on the other. I just didn’t see him to know, you know, Hunter Gaddis, I thought if you put them in the bullpen, you just tell them to throw hard, maybe once while throw a slider or something. He had a chance to be a good one. Any guy.

And that looks like that’s the case, but Kate Smith is another one that looks like that. So that could be how this bullpen issue could be salvaged is if you get a couple of these young guys with really strong arms that could chew up some innings. Um, now I was warned by, um, a top baseball person. I respect when the guardians traded for Barlow that he’s relying way too much on his slider.

And he’s just not the guy who was a couple of years ago with that ERA under three. And we’ve seen it, you know, he’s, he seems to be going deep in counts. Uh, his fastball is 90, 91. And that’s a concern because if he can’t be the eighth inning guy or, you know, they tied up over six, I think $7 million in this guy too. Uh, that’s part of the reason they, uh, you know, this was their one big investment was, was bringing Barwo in. So.

Um, that’s a concern. Uh, I thought McKenzie looked terrible. He was thrown 88 to 90. Things were high. He seemed to have no rhythm. It’s only one start. So let’s see how that goes. But if I were them, I would be concerned. Um,

David Campbell (32:48.302)

Four and two thirds innings, Terry, seven strikeouts. I’m sorry, that was the bullpen last night. The bullpen pitched four and two thirds innings with seven strikeouts, no walks and three hits, but it was an early exit by Tristan McKenzie. What looks off to you with him? Is it the mechanics?

terry (32:53.315)

No. Yeah.

terry (32:59.055)

Mm-hmm.

terry (33:04.899)

his release point or something. Yeah, pitches, so many pitches up high. And he just isn’t, he isn’t a 95 to 97 guy in velocity, but he was like 89 to 91. And breaking ball, I don’t know, he just seemed off. So let’s see what else comes up. Because of the illness in our family, Roberta and I were not able to go to spring training. So.

I really was at a deficit in terms of trying to evaluate some of these guys or seeing things. And the first time in 30 years, by the way, didn’t get to go to spring training, so I missed that. And now I realize how valuable it is when I didn’t have it because talking to different people. But I did talk to some people who were down there and that’s where I was kind of worn out. And then the other thing that’s a concern is Estevan Florio. I was told.

He loves to chase that high fastball and he’s got an uppercut swing and he swings and swings and swings and that’s pretty much what we’ve seen. He drilled one, he drilled a double and then barely made it into third. There was, he probably shouldn’t have tried it, but at least he crushed one ball. But that’s, you know, they’re hoping for more out of him and maybe they will get more. But the things that I was warned about with him, I see.

The same thing with Barlow, the things that I was warned about by some people down there we’ve seen early in the year. So those are the two disconcerting things. The young guys in the bullpen are big positive. Freeman in center, big positive. Jimenez is swinging the ball with the bat very well. He plays, he’s the best second baseman I’ve seen since Robbie Alomar. I mean, she’s just phenomenal. He is, he is, he’s phenomenal. And

David Campbell (34:49.998)

That’s some high praise.

terry (34:56.043)

Maybe he’s going to go back to like hitting like he was two years ago, where he was really productive. Um, and then, you know, the nice thing, I mean, they got the guy signed for like seven years or something. So that’s if he becomes an all star and if he could start hitting to 72 80 with an OPS around 800 and he might, you know, you could have an all star here for a long time, tied up for a long time.

David Campbell (35:16.918)

Yeah, he’s already got the gold glove and the platinum glove defensively. Check out Hoynsey’s got a story on cleveland.com slash guardians about apparently him and has been listening to salsa music for years to get his feet. He dances to the salsa music and he says that really helps him with his footwork so that there’s, there’s the secret behind the defensive stardom.

terry (35:19.239)

Thank you.

terry (35:35.987)

His ability to go down and jump up and be on balance, that was a Robbie Alomar thing, is phenomenal. The other guy who could do it, Omar. Omar did not have a strong arm, but that quick feet and all those things, I just remember

this, this is just unbelievable. I wish I could find it was on ESPN. It was one of their analytics guys who was basically writing a white Omar does not belong in a hall of fame. And he goes, if you really look at it analytically, he’s not much better than Larry Brown. I’m going Larry Brown played her in the sixties. I saw Larry Brown and excuse me, sir. Larry Brown is no Omar

David Campbell (36:15.063)

Hahaha

terry (36:25.467)

very average player. I saw him. You have no clue. And, but we mentioned, like, how he said, the salsa feet or whatever, boy, Omar and Jimenez, they got it.

David Campbell (36:39.214)

All right, well, Terry, I did want to recap that we’ve been doing the good and the bad here. The Cleveland starters are two in one with a 5.01 ERA and Hoynsey had a stat today, the stat that the starters have thrown 23 1 3rd innings and the relievers have thrown 19 2 3rd innings. It’s not far off from being 50 there and that’s gonna have to change. So, okay, so we’ve done the good and kind of the bad. Yeah, yeah, go ahead.

terry (36:47.021)

Yeah.

terry (36:57.87)

Ugh.

terry (37:04.903)

Oh, and I kind of liked it. I thought, um, Carrasco gave them what you would hope to get five innings, three runs. Yeah. If you look back to when he was, yeah, and he’s out there and cause it looked like he was going to die early in that game. And he got through granted it’s Oakland. So there’s five asterisks, but nonetheless, um, he lasted longer than Tanner by B.

David Campbell (37:15.874)

Keep the game close.

terry (37:31.035)

And now he’s not thrown real hard, but you know, Carlos is out there. He’s thrown his off speed stuff and he’s just, you know, kind of like how we will themselves back from leukemia is like, he’s sort of willing himself back for like one more year.

David Campbell (37:31.115)

Alright.

David Campbell (37:46.73)

Yeah, he’s something else. All right, so before we wrap up the Guardians story, I wanted to share this. Mike Petrello, he writes for MLB.com. He had a funny tweet, X, whatever you want to call it these days. And he was looking at baseball’s avant and he said, this is the funniest stat I’ve seen all day. The lowest ground ball percentage. And I think this was before today’s game on Tuesday. The Guardians have the lowest ground ball percentage this season of every major league team.

terry (37:58.085)

Mm-hmm.

David Campbell (38:15.15)

32.9% and this Cardinals are second at 33.9 and basically this is just a measure of how many balls that you put in play are ground balls and somebody said to him why is that the funniest stat and he said well Cleveland hasn’t had like an outfielder hit 30 home runs since like 1916 or something and that’s why he thought it was funny, but people you know who are Cleveland baseball fans they know this team and Antonetti has talked about this a lot is we don’t need to hit home runs

terry (38:34.81)

Yeah.

David Campbell (38:44.95)

we need to score more runs. And this kind of ties back to that. If you’re not hitting ground balls and you’re getting line drives and you’re, I mean, they could have had a couple more hits last night if it wasn’t for a couple of great defensive plays by Seattle. But if you’re hitting line drives and putting the ball in play in a hard way, you’re gonna be getting more doubles, triples. They’re up way up there in extra base hits so far this season. So I thought that was interesting in terms of the guardians approach. Like, yeah, they’re not hitting a ton of home runs,

This is a good sign so far. I think that they’re actually, you talked about, you know, last season, all the guys who were putting the ball in play, but not hitting it hard. And this is kind of a reflection that I think guys are hitting it a little harder, at least so far. So.

terry (39:23.558)

Yeah.

terry (39:28.511)

Yeah, they had a lot of doubles and that’s really good. You know, Roquio’s off to a nice start. That’s another thing to mention. So there’s some encouraging things. I mean, so much of it is asterisks because Oakland is so bad. It’s so bad. But nonetheless, for the most part in that series, you know, they caught the ball, they ran the base as well. Those are things that looked like, let’s put this, it looked like they had a spring training anyway.

some of these that you wonder what, what did Oakland do? I mean, I’m sure it’s not God say the manager’s fault. He’s been around forever. It’s just like, what do you want me to do? Everybody’s like just thinking about Vegas. I mean, you know, I just got whoever I got. So, um, so that, that’s, that’s been the fun part there.

David Campbell (40:14.382)

And I guess we could have put this under the good category, Terry, but the base running and the steals have been, I think that’s going to be a pretty fun brand of baseball for fans to watch this season. If they can keep that up, double steals, they’re taking extra bases and they were doing it in Oakland against one of the best throwing catchers in the game. So if that continues all season, I think that’s going to be really exciting for fans, even if they’re on a ton of home runs. So.

terry (40:18.892)

Mm-hmm.

terry (40:30.208)

Mm-hmm.

terry (40:36.075)

And also if you steal a couple bases off a catcher, he becomes discouraged because either because the pitcher isn’t holding on right or the new rules won’t let me, don’t give me a chance. It’s just like a guy that keeps hitting line drives that are caught. You begin to think I’ll never get a hit. Now you’re hitting pop-ups. Well, then the next thing I think catcher where he’s making pretty good throws, but the guy’s not holding him on. Now all of a sudden the ball sailing into the outfield is bouncing.

It just goes in a bad direction.

David Campbell (41:09.75)

Alright, so the Guardians are continuing on their trip and they will be going to Texas after they’re done in Seattle. And then the home opener is on Monday, the 8th of April, and there will be an eclipse around 3 o’clock and then a baseball game around 5. The weather looked pretty good the last I saw. It looked sunny and in the 60s. So it’s all good news for Monday. So get your eclipse classes and then you can watch the Guardians open the home season. So alright, on to the Browns, Terry. I don’t know.

Do we want to talk about Kate York anymore this week or what do you think?

terry (41:42.831)

I’m glad they have another kicker in there. I’m not ready to write him off. He’s a backup, but I just want a real kicker who’s at least been in some games that you could bring in case Hopkins has another pulled muscle, which he’s had several during his NFL career. So, fine. You know, it’s a guy they kind of like, and if not, they go get somebody else. But I did not like the idea of…

Well, if that glass training camp, they didn’t even have another kicker in there. They’ll take, Kade York was the only one.

David Campbell (42:17.494)

Yeah, and the thing is he’s got leg and you know, it’s like they say you can always teach a shooter to play defense, right? You can always teach a long kicker to be more accurate, but we’ll see how that…

terry (42:28.683)

Well, that’s they say that stuff is not always true, but we can find out. I mean, Phil Dawson was cut three times before he stuck with the Bronx three times. Just and there’s a lot of other examples of guys who’ve been cut and bounced around. And I believe Hopkins was also cut at least once, if not twice early in his career.

David Campbell (42:51.274)

All right, yeah, Phil Dawson said that is crazy. Three times he was cut before he made the Browns, huh? That’s something.

terry (42:58.532)

Yeah. Cause he, he documented them all. I think I could only find two, but he also talked about this weird trial in Pittsburgh for one day, but they had them in there and they just, he’s like, he couldn’t even figure out why they had them in. It’s like, they had him kick like five times and we’ll, we’ll get back to you.

David Campbell (43:17.311)

So Terry, we’re coming up on the draft, which is about three weeks away here on the 25th. The Browns won’t have a first round pick again this year because of the Watson trade, but they’ve made a lot of moves this off season to fill in holes on their roster. Which is your favorite move that you think was the best one in terms of fit so far this off season?

terry (43:34.374)

Ah, I’m throwing this one to you first. What is your favorite move?

David Campbell (43:40.466)

So I thought about this and I like the Jordan Hicks move because they got it. Did I really? Sorry. See, it just goes to show. We don’t, we don’t talk before the podcast. So it’s two years, $8 million, which is a really good number. I know middle linebackers are being kind of devalued in the NFL these days, but this is a guy who played for Jim Schwartz for three seasons. It’s a good contract. And.

terry (43:47.263)

You took my guy that is not fair. Yes, that is not fair

David Campbell (44:08.534)

When you lose Anthony Walker, a guy who was kind of the traffic cop in the middle of the defense, I think he’s Jordan Hicks’ kind of guy you can plug right in there and can do the same kind of thing. So I’m sorry I stole your guy. Is there anything you can add to that?

terry (44:20.031)

Well, let’s hope Jerry, let’s hope Jerry Judy is it but I’m not gonna go down that road because that was a trade And that all right, who else do you like? I’m just gonna kind of go get him. See who see if you get my second guy

David Campbell (44:33.403)

Ah man.

terry (44:36.315)

It’s kind of an uneventful…

David Campbell (44:39.278)

Shelby Harris? Is he your second guy?

terry (44:42.371)

He’s up there. I do like Shelby Harris. And I also just like, this is a real underrated one. I like Hurst if he could stay healthy. The two tackles. Yes, he did. And so, you know, those are the type of players. They’re not necessarily the best, just kind of signings that you like. But I’m stunned you had Hicks first. I sure just went out of the gate with it.

David Campbell (44:52.93)

He made some big plays last year. Yep.

terry (45:08.911)

But I really wanted to see though, you know, the, the problem with Anthony Walker is he gets hurt all the time. I mean, he’s a great guy and all that, you know, Hicks has been able to stay on the field most of his career. Um, and they, they do need that, you know, type of thing going. Um, would it surprise you if they took a cornerback as their first pick?

David Campbell (45:09.224)

Alright.

David Campbell (45:31.734)

54 it would not but and we can get more into this as we get closer to the draft I really would like to see them bolster that safety room a little bit because they had some injuries there and Grant delpit’s history of injuries it there. They’re susceptible. They’re young back there They’ve been banged up I just think getting some good quality depth in the second third round and some special teams guys Also that would be able to do both Could be the way to go but we can talk more about that closer to the draft Do you see it you see a hole?

terry (45:33.54)

No.

terry (45:38.916)

Mm-hmm.

terry (45:56.611)

Mm-hmm.

terry (45:59.959)

But I’m glad you say that because I am, I’m a little, well, first of all, I’ve always think kind of defensive backs, especially cornerbacks are a little bit like pitchers, they get hurt, they’re a little fragile, you’d seem like this when you think you have enough suddenly by week 14, some guy that they pulled off the street of starting, I mean, it almost always happens that way. And so you want to try to avoid that just like, well, you know, my, I wrote a thing about, uh, for last Sunday about loading up, uh,

Areas where you have injuries hanging over things, you know, you load up the quarterback area And so you have tyrell huntley and you have jamis winston And you have dtr and then you load up the running back and mary k made a good thing that I completely forgot about dtr Having that big hip injury at the end of the year that they didn’t talk much about Maybe there’s a reason there’s tyrell huntley in here too for that

David Campbell (46:55.382)

Yeah, yeah, that was because he had the concussion too in the hip thing. You’re right. It kind of got forgotten there, Terry. And that’s a big, that’s a big injury. Yeah.

terry (46:59.783)

Yeah, the hip thing at the end of the year. Yes, it is. And so that, that was a problem there. And then you go with the running backs, you know, they just, they brought in, I always kind of like foreman as a short yardish guy, he’s bounced around, but you know, adequate guy and you know, we’ll see what Jerome Ford could really do now. You know, knowing he’s going to be playing quite a bit because let’s, let’s get off of this Nick Chubb getting a play in September or whatever that.

It’s not fair to Chubb. He’s going to talk about wanting to do it then and that’s fine. And you know, you never underestimate Nick Chubb, but I just think one of the worst things you can do when a guy has had both ACL and MCL surgery had them two months apart, remember it wasn’t one shot that had to go in there twice. That’s the same knee had a whole bunch of scar tissue in it from the big surgery he had in 2015 at Georgia, um, make sure that knee is right. We may not really see.

the Nick Chubb fully back. I’m not saying it won’t be on the field, but how good Nick Chubb can be, I think, until 2025, I really believe that. And this is why you may want to make sure if you could work some kind of contract where you have some options for him, you know, with 24, roll it into 25. I would kid, I would try to keep him under team control because it’s kind of like a pitcher coming off Tommy John or whatnot. You just, sometimes he comes back.

Maybe he’s not ready or just the thing is not as strong. Nah, he’s not that good. You let him go and then he goes somewhere else and he’s ready to go. Now he looks sorta like himself.

David Campbell (48:33.262)

Well, if anybody can come back from it, it’s him. But the other thing, Terry, like you said, it’s a lot of wear and tear on those knees. And the only thing that Andrew Berry said was that we, he has not taken his last snap as a Cleveland Brown. That’s as far as Andrew Berry would go, because I don’t think he was going to say, Oh yeah, he’s going to be starting for us. And this, that, and the other, that was all he would say. And I think that was a fair statement.

terry (48:39.344)

Yeah.

terry (48:46.564)

Alright.

terry (48:54.271)

Which is, yeah, and also with Andrew Berry, basically, he does not want anything attached to his name that’s going to come bounce back on him. And so did you listen to Winston’s press conference and everything? What did you think of that?

David Campbell (49:10.098)

I did not, but I read the transcript and I thought that he really set the tone for what he wants to be for this team and as not just a backup quarterback, but also a mentor to a guy who’s younger than him. And I think we talked about this just about the things they have in common and they’ve kind of lived a lot of the same things and it seems like it’s going to be a good pairing. So

terry (49:11.972)

Yeah.

terry (49:17.705)

Mm-hmm.

terry (49:27.011)

Yeah.

terry (49:32.359)

I mean, there was, you know, the one when I really delved more into the Winston thing. I mean, like I love Flacco too. This is this is aside from that. It began to make a lot more sense to me than when I first heard it. And then when they picked up Tyler Huntley, because he’s just floating around out there, because I always kind of liked him. I’m like, great. You could put him in the game too. Since last year, you

David Campbell (49:54.914)

Yep, a backup for the backup for the backup. Ha ha ha.

terry (49:56.783)

Well, since last year, Jeff Driscoll, he could win some money on that one. I always forget that he started that last game. Um, because remember DTR is out then. And so like, okay, line them up.

David Campbell (50:10.862)

quarterback number five. All right, hey Terry, about a month ago, you invited fans to send in their stories of foul balls that they caught at a game and we’ve gotten some really good ones. We’re gonna try to keep working through them since we’re into baseball season. They’re really fun to read. So this first one comes to us from Ron Richner and he lives in Hilton Head Island, South Carolina, where I’m sure it’s beautiful, not like here today.

And here’s what he says, I’ve been an Indians, Guardians, Browns, and more recently Cavs fan for all of my 75 years. I grew up in Northwest Ohio, only 90 miles from Detroit, but 150 miles from Cleveland. Most of my friends were Tigers and Lions fans, and I was a distinct minority. My first major league game was in Briggs Stadium. Fast forward through the 50s, 60s, and 70s, listening to Jimmy Dudley scouring the box scores for their wealth of information to June 1982. My friend Dave and I attended a Twilight double header.

terry (50:52.462)

Ah!

David Campbell (51:04.106)

Remember those in old Tiger Stadium. Tiger Stadium was built much like Municipal Stadium and old Comiskey. The roof over the upper deck was supported by pillars, the seats behind which were a dead zone. Our seats for this classic were in the first row of the upper deck in right field, immediately next to the right field foul line in fair territory, but not behind a pillar. You could look straight down on the top of the right fielder. Len Barker for the Tribe and Jack Morse for the Tigers were locked in a classic

pitchers duel, the Tribe led 1-0 heading into the bottom of the 7th. Barker was sailing along until Kirk Gibson led off the bottom of the 7th with a single. Jerry Turner, a little left-handed hitter, stepped in and lofted a high deep drive right down the right field line, headed for the upper deck and headed directly at me. As the ball got closer, according to Dave sitting next to me, I took a wide stance, elbows out and caught the home run on the fly. The Tiger fans around me were cheering wildly and pounding on my back.

What I wanted to do was throw it back on the field in disgust. I did not. Ha ha ha.

terry (52:04.195)

Don’t do it. Don’t do it. It’s your ball.

David Campbell (52:07.786)

He says both pitchers through complete games and the Tigers won 2-1. After leaving the second game early, Dave and I went to my aunt and uncle’s house in Westland, Michigan. My uncle had been listening to the game on radio and was very excited about the Tigers’ win. Early Ernie Harwell, the great Tigers’ radio voice, had a schtick where when a Tiger hit a home run in the stands, he would say, and a young man from Hamtranck is going home with that Tiger blast. My uncle excitedly told me Ernie had used that line in the game. I showed him the ball and said, I’m that young man.

terry (52:21.851)

Hmm. Yeah.

terry (52:36.541)

Hahaha

David Campbell (52:38.366)

I still have that ball in my collection along with the box score of the game. It’s funny how my most cherished game ball experience was the direct result of yet another tribe loss. So there you go.

terry (52:48.151)

Well, to roll this further, this is the second time somebody’s rolled in about a story from when I was covering the Tribe, which I know I was there. I was on the beat and I was the Orioles in 79 and I was Cleveland 80 through 84 on baseball. Then it would later switch over to the Cavs. So I was obviously at that doubleheader, which I remember nothing about other than that right field.

I believe was an optical illusion, but you would swear while watching it that the right field upper deck and Briggs actually hung over the playing field because it seems like the right fielder would be going back thinking he’s going to catch the ball and it just didn’t come down and landed in this guy’s hands or whatever. So that’s a cool story.

David Campbell (53:33.262)

in some guy’s hands, right.

Yeah, those are the great old stadiums that hung over like that. They didn’t go back and up the way the ones now do. And you could, you could hear everything on the field because you were so close. So, all right. This last one is from Alan Mancuso and Al says, uh, actually no, Alan, he said he ran into you. I’ll just read the letter. He says, I live, I’ve lived in current in Cleveland and currently I live on the near west side in Ohio city. I say this to say I’m a lifelong Cleveland resident and sports fan, except for a short period when I was a New York Jets fan.

terry (53:43.451)

Mm-hmm.

David Campbell (54:05.226)

I actually had the honor of meeting you, Terry, once at the Carnegie West Library branch. And he says, I have a question and I have a question and a story. I’d like to know if you have any insight as to why former Cleveland baseball team ended the broadcast team of Joe Tate and Bruce Drennan. I thought they were the best by far. They were the most entertaining in my unhumble opinion. Nev Chandler and Doug Deacon were spectacular too.

terry (54:10.087)

I don’t know.

David Campbell (54:27.21)

So we can get into that in a second, Terry. And he says, here’s my story. I remember the foul ball that I didn’t catch. I was at a guardians game in the early eighties with my mom’s sister and my sister’s friend. My mom sent me to get food for all of us at the concessions. And as I was walking back to our seats in upper right field, I noticed the Cecil Cooper of the Brewers was at bat. I got to our row when all of a sudden Cecil hits a foul ball coming right at us. In that time, I had to make a decision, drop all the food and risk the ire of my mom and go for the foul ball or hope my mom would get it.

terry (54:31.899)

Okay.

terry (54:56.68)

Hehehehe

David Campbell (54:57.51)

I was around eight years old, so I chose the ladder. Wrong choice. The foul ball came screaming in right toward my mom as I watched in anticipation of having my first ever foul ball. The ball hit her in the foot and the guy in the row in front of us got it. I was so mad. I really wanted that ball. Of course, I got over it fairly quickly. And that is from Al Mancuso. Thanks Al for that. So Al about it, Terry about Al’s question about what happened with Joe Tate and Bruce Drennan were together at one point, huh?

terry (55:01.14)

Mm-hmm.

terry (55:09.019)

Mmm.

terry (55:24.659)

Yes, they were. They brought Trudison from Aurora, Illinois. He was sort of a talk show host and that. And they, the, the powers of B thought the combination wasn’t real good, but then they came up and I hope my memory is right. Then they came up with putting Joe Tate on TV with Reggie Rucker, the football player, because who had played there. And that was a weird pairing. That was very strange where

Tate would kind of make fun of Drennan and, you know, they livened it up that way. That was just odd. And so then later on, Joe then just swished totally over to basketball after that.

David Campbell (56:08.478)

All right. Well, there you go. Thanks for the letters Hey, if you want to hit us with a comment question a foul ball story You can send that to us at sports at Cleveland comm and put Terry’s talking and the subject line We’ll keep doing these until till there’s no more. So we appreciate you sending those in so I think that’s it Terry I think we’re done anything else you want to get into?

terry (56:28.535)

No, I am all finished. I am going to go back to just typing up my little stories. But congratulations to, by the way, at the Copley Post office this morning, I did see Jim Stone, not the former East Tech basketball player, but a loyal listener. And then also there, it was a great place to be at the Copley Post office. I still live in West Akron, was Drew Joyce II. So we were there talking. He is now the.

Patriarch of the great coaching family because of course Cameron Joyce is one son won the state title at st. Ignatius and Drew the third is taking over for Keith Danbrot at Duquesne is the head coach and we were just chatting about how you know Drew number two started as a youth basketball coach with his son Drew the third who made friends with LeBron and they picked up other guys Willie McGee and those other guys along the way and then

Um, Keith Dan brought was coaching at St. V. They went over to their drew in his assistant. At that point, he was doing very well as a medical supply salesman and you know, how life comes, you know, LeBron came into the life and otherwise he was going to be a youth coach for a long time. He helped out at Buckdall high school. And then next thing you know, I think he’s won seven titles at, uh, at St. V himself and his sons are just doing tremendous work.

So it was just fun. And by the way, he was mailing packages just like me.

David Campbell (58:00.686)

That’s what happens at the post office, I guess. But yeah, it’s crazy to think about like that St. V team that Keith Danbrot kind of got put together at St. V and then he left and Drew took over and won more state championships. And it’s hard, now LeBron is in his what, 21st NBA season and these guys are becoming head coaches. And man, the time has gone so fast, but it’s really been remarkable to watch. I remember watching Drew when he was a freshman at St. V and he-

terry (58:01.943)

That’s what you do, yeah.

terry (58:09.761)

Mm-hmm.

terry (58:17.784)

Yeah.

David Campbell (58:29.91)

You know, he was probably not even six feet at that point. Yeah. And Maverick Carter and, and that whole team.

terry (58:32.531)

Oh no, little Drew, he was like five, three, making all these threes. LeBron just kept throwing it to him and never. Yeah. They were just, they were cooking. So it was, it was, it was a lot of fun to see that. And then for years, Drew, the second had to prove that he could be a good coach without LeBron or without Keith Nebron. And so he had overcome that. And, um, and by the way, it was a fascinating story, just a side story on Drew, the third was.

played in Germany for 10 years. He’s like one of the all time great German basketball players. And then he came home and he was hired by Dennis Gates as an assistant coach. And so he was there two years with Dennis Gates and or three. But anyway, when Gates left, he applied drew the third applied for the job, but he didn’t get it. Daniel Robinson got a great hire by the way, by Scott Garrett. Nothing, no knock on Drew the third, but Daniel been like kind of a veteran assistant like.

Gates and that’s what they were looking for. Well, Keith Danbrott swooped in and he was coming off a tough year. I think they lost over 20 games and he asked Drew to come over with him to Duquesne. It was almost like, let’s get the band together because he wanted to kind of keep his job and also set up little Drew as he’s still known there to succeed him. And of course, two years later, that’s what’s happened.

David Campbell (59:55.374)

Pretty remarkable. I know you’re working on a column on that whole arrangement too, which will be really fun to read. So, all right, Terry, I think we are good. Thanks everybody for listening. Don’t forget to sign up for Terry’s newsletter. You can go to cleveland.com slash newsletters and just click on Terry’s newsletter. You’ll get everything he does every Monday. Thanks again. We’ll catch you next week. Enjoy all the basketball and we’ll talk to you soon on Terry’s Talking.